The following is an auto-generated transcript of the Brazn Azn podcast Episode 28. It also includes affiliate links that do not affect the price you pay, but allows me to recoup some of our costs. Please excuse any mistakes or misspellings as we do not have the time nor bandwidth to edit.
Show Notes
In this episode of the Brazn Azn podcast, co-hosts Stella and Virginia Duan are joined by award-winning actor, writer, director, producer, and voiceover artist Anthony Ma. Anthony discusses his new short film “God and Buddha Are Friends,” which is inspired by a childhood experience.
- The Story Behind the Film
- Big Mom Energy
- Creating an Authentic 90s Experience
- Balancing Accuracy and Storytelling
- The Evolution of Asian American Roles in Hollywood
- Challenges and Progress in the Industry
Follow Anthony Ma on Instagram. Follow “God and Buddha Are Friends” on Instagram.
Check out the trailer here:
Listen to Brazn Azn Ep 28
Transcript
Stella: [00:00:00] Hi, Brazen Nation. This is the Brazn Azn podcast. I’m your co-host Stella.
Virginia: And I’m your other co-host, Virginia Duan, also known as Mandarin Mama. I’m the entertainment editor for Mochi Magazine, which is the longest running online Asian American Women’s Magazine.
I’m a freelance writer as well as an author of several books, two of which are on sale right now. “Illusive” and “Weightless.” If you like, stories about really, really messy people, people recovering from trauma, found families, sexy times all set in a K-pop background, these are the books for you. And then I have a new novella coming out on the 6th of May, called “Love As Soft as a Distant Star” and I can’t remember what it’s about, so, oh, it’s about arranged marriages and witches. Yay.
Stella: We’re so lucky today to have Anthony Ma with us. He’s an award-winning actor, writer, director, producer, and voiceover artist who’s born and raised in [00:01:00] Arcadia, California. And from the ripe age of five, after watching “Ace Ventura Pet Detective,” he knew what he wanted to be Jim Carrey.
However, that didn’t pan out for him ’cause he’s not Jim Carrey. And that ambition evolved into a passion for acting in filmmaking, which unfortunately did little to lessen his poor mother’s headaches. So, Anthony, come say hi to Brazen Nation.
Anthony: Hello, this is Asian Jim Carrey. Hi, Anthony Ma.
Stella: Oh my God. Just like Asian Jim from “The Office.”
Anthony: There you go. Right, right. I hope one day I’ll be just like Randall and just not be called by my own name, by a regular white dude’s name. But yeah. Hi everyone. Hi to all your listeners. I’m very happy to be a part of Brazn Azn. Thank you for bringing me on.
Virginia: Of course, of course. So I guess why don’t we tell folks what you’re on here today to [00:02:00] promote, I guess, your, yes, your new film.
Anthony: This is why I’m on here to promote a short film called “God and Buddha Are Friends.” It is based on a true experience that happened to me when I was a 7-year-old when I received this dragon jade.
And if you ever happened to be raised by a Buddhist parent or anyone of Taiwanese, Chinese descent– any anything like, they really put a lot of spiritual meaning and protective meaning within items. So I at seven years old received this dragon jade from my mom to be used as this protective totem.
And on that same day I visited a Christian pastor who saw this totem, and told me that it was a sin to wear this, that the devil follows this wherever I go, if I wear this. And I came home very scared, very traumatized, ’cause at the age of seven, you believe in God, [00:03:00] you believe in Buddha, you believe in Santa, you believe in everything.
So I was scared to death, to even go home. And that was when I revealed to my mom what had happened. And my mom, being a single mom, being overly protective, I was the only child, she went livid. And the next day she found her way to the pastor’s home with me and her best friend.
And it was a clash of titans. I’ll just say. So this is what I’d like to call a traumedy. It’s a comedy that is that tackles this very, very specific time in my life when I fell into this existential crisis. So yeah, it’s, it’s touring around right now. It’s going to hit up Los Angeles, Asian Pacific Film Fest on May 4th Star Wars Day.
And then right after that it’s going to CAAM Fest up in SF on May 10th at AMC Kabuki theaters. And then we’ll be heading over to HAAPI fest, which is Houston, Asian [00:04:00] American Pacific Islander Film Festival in, yeah, in H Town over there. And we’re still collecting more acceptances, so we’ll see.
Virginia: That’s awesome.
Anthony: Thank you.
Virginia: Can people watch it online other than at these festivals?
Anthony: Not yet. We’re planning to do this festival tour first. We just had a LA premiere at New Filmmakers LA last Saturday, which was April 19th. And it was a beautiful premiere.
That was our second time screening this year to the public. Oh. So what we plan on doing is a festival tour for 2025, and then we’re going to have a wider release online in 2026. That’s when I’ll probably be telling you and letting you guys know so you can push it out there. So
Virginia: Yeah, of course, of course.
So we see here that your film won the Golden Cookie Award for best drama at the Borrego Springs Film Festival. Yeah. Which is the first festival for this short.
Anthony: Yeah. It was our work.
Virginia: So, congratulations.
Anthony: Thank you, thank you. We got a big golden [00:05:00] cookie, literally what it was. And yeah, I ate it all by myself and my kids had to watch.
My five-year-old, 4-year-old just were tearing up as I was just gobbling it up. But yes.
Virginia: Wait, it’s a literal cookie.
Anthony: A literal cookie. There is a picture of it somewhere online, but yeah, a literal cookie, big cookie made by Pam, who is one of the festival staff there. She’s this wonderful senior woman that has this young energy that is also this very maternal kind of person as well.
Virginia: Dude, that’s awesome. Yeah. And that’s very sustainable of them, right?
Stella: Actually, speaking of maternal energy I really loved all the big mom energy in this film. Like, oh yes. Right top to bottom, beginning to end. I felt such a love for moms, especially immigrant moms. And we’d love to hear you talk a little bit about making maternal love such a huge part of the film.
Anthony: Well, as you can tell, just by reading my bio in the intro, a lot of my life has always been about my [00:06:00] mom. My mom and I are super close. Like I said, I’m an only child. She’s a single mom. My dad left our family when I was two. And basically my mom had to raise me and essentially raise my grandmother who was half paralyzed at the time after a stroke.
So,
Virginia: oh my gosh,
Anthony: Her mom got a stroke when I was two. She got a divorce when I was two, and then she had to just build a, a new life based on that, you know, and move out of the house and everything. So, as a kid, I’d never really realized all the things she had to go through. And as you grow up, and when you have kids of your own, you’re like, wow, my mom really pushed through had this amazing strength and all these like little memories of when she was defending you when a kid was like saying, you’re stupid. Or like this, like when a Christian pastor scares you to death, she defends you.
My life has always been wrapped around my mom until really my kids came into my life. And then now I use this example that, this [00:07:00] strength that my mom really showed, and I try to emulate that and put it into how I parent and protect my children today. I love my mom and I just wanted to really write and make a film that serves as a love letter and a reminder that, mom, you’re also a little bit crazy.
So, so I put it out into a “God and Buddha Friends” and sent it out there. She likes it. She’s, she’s good with it.
Virginia: So does she consult with the actress?
Anthony: Yeah, so we have Karin Anna Cheung, who if you know of “Better Luck Tomorrow,” which is one of our iconic Asian American films back when, 2005, I believe. And she was the only female star in that.
I had the fortune of working with her on a feature in 2018 called “Staycation,” and that was when we became friends. When I was writing this, all I could think about was Karin and her — what [00:08:00] you mentioned, Stella. This protective energy and this mad crazy energy that this mom needs to have.
I thought of Karin Anna Cheung. When I called her to ask her about this role, if she would like to do this, Karin cried and then she, she mentioned Anthony, the universe works in mysterious ways. I was about to quit acting, so fuck you.
Virginia: She’s like, I was gonna get a 401k.
Yeah.
Anthony: And I love her to death. She’s amazing. She’s like my older sister. Karin deserves everything, so it was just an honor to have Karin play my mom and be a part of this film.
Stella: She did an incredible job in the film and I really loved that she didn’t feel the need, or maybe this was also part of your writing and directing. Nobody felt the need to tell her she needed a fake accent.
Anthony: Yeah, right. My mom doesn’t have an accent, so, okay. I remember the question now. My mom knows Karin. When I told my mother that I’m thinking about Karin to play you, what do you think about [00:09:00] that?
And my mom was like, perfect. She can match the crazy. My mom is very self-aware and she fullheartedly taught Karin everything she needed to know.
Virginia: Dude, that’s awesome.
Anthony: I know.
Virginia: You keep mentioning that they have this like crazy energy. But I really didn’t find her very crazy, so I don’t know what that says about me.
Anthony: Virginia, yeah. I was gonna say something, you know, I didn’t wanna…
As parents, it, it’s funny because as parents, you probably won’t feel like that’s crazy, right? And personality type as well.
Virginia: One of the reasons I was really excited about your short film was because of the evangelical trauma.
Anthony: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Virginia: Could you tell us more about the evangelical scenes, especially that song the little girl is singing on the car ride.
Stella: It’s a VBS song. The pastor, that’s a VBS song. My, my reaction to that song was visceral. I was like, oh my God. Which is, [00:10:00]
Anthony: it’s pumping right Now’s like, yes.
That was my intention.
Yeah.
Stella: It’s, it’s wild how ingrained into us it is,, right?
Anthony: Yes. So we wanted obviously for this story to feel authentic and bring you back to the nineties. It is set in the nineties. If you happen to be raised in the nineties and 626, I wanted you to feel that.
That’s why visually we made it look a little bit grainy. We also made the subtitles a little too small and fast because when we watched Jackie Chan films back in the day, it was like, I missed it, but okay, it doesn’t matter. You know, the subtitles matched the nineties, kind of Jackie Chan nineties film subtitles.
So. Not only visually, but through the story as well. I didn’t grow up Christian. I went to church when I was in my earlier college years. And I went to a church that was a Pentecostal church, so they spoke in tongues. We went to healings and revivals where, you know, I had a 7-year-old touch my spine or something, and I started shaking, feeling [00:11:00] all these kind of energies that were intense unexplainable almost.
I’ve also felt these kind of energies through my mom’s Buddhist prayers and stuff. Mm-hmm. So I couldn’t really explain all this. All I know is that we’re all human accessing this, whatever energy that’s out there.
But anyways, with that being said, I didn’t grow up with that. I had my friend come in, Jonathan Hernandez, who’s also a great writer. He writes for Dreamworks Animation Thomas the Train stuff. So I asked him to come in and be a script consultant to help me not offend Christians because at one point writing the script, maybe like third, second draft, and I was like, I don’t want it to be all one sided.
It needs to really balance out, but it also has to stay true to what I experienced as a kid. Mm. But I don’t want to bash on Christians. That’s not my intention, so
Virginia: Oh, that’s too bad.
Anthony: I wanted it to be about humans and how they really [00:12:00] protect people they love by using whatever they believe in, whether that’s through Christianity beliefs or Buddhist beliefs.
But I had my friend Jonathan come in. I was like, I have this moment here where this, I want, I need this girl to sing a song or something and do a hand choreography. And he was like, I got it. ” Every Move I Make.” I’m like, what’s that? And then he led me to VBS and I saw it on YouTube and I’m like, oh, this is great. Wonderful. There was a whole hip hop, dance backwards caps and everything, and they’re all dancing. And I was like, this is wonderful. I’m gonna use this.
Stella: So you mentioned that the film was set in the nineties, in the 626. Yeah. I grew up in, in 310, so nice. Yeah. Great. Right. Okay. I really loved so many aspects of the film, especially the way that it was located. Mm-hmm.
It was very much nineties. It was so set in that, but also the set design, the color grading. Shout out to your cinematographer. I was like, oh, these shots are great. Like the title screen. [00:13:00] Thank you. I was like, ah, when I saw the title screen, I was like, oh, this is amazing. This is, and so I, I just, I really loved all the little details that you, you all like.
Mm-hmm. And clearly this is a community effort. So many people came together mm-hmm to make this film. Mm-hmm. So what was it like trying to put all these little pieces together?
Anthony: So I’m first an actor. And then I started writing and then I started leading groups to make events for film festivals.
But I was too shy to ever step into this directing position. I had major imposter syndrome. I still suffer through it, but I think at one point, probably 2023, I had a lot of projects that I was working on for so long and spending a lot of money on for research and then getting closed doors on it.
And I was a little tired and I was like, okay, maybe I can just do this on my own and with no permission, and use these two hands and use the resources and the [00:14:00] friends that I’ve made along the way and reunite with old friends that I’ve made films with. So this was the very first time where I’ve, although I’ve worked with these friends before, but worked in this kind of manner with them and really focused on details with them.
I don’t want to give it all to me, but like, I think I was the Ocean of “Ocean’s 11” in this. I really did assemble a crack team, you know what I mean?
Ryo Shiina, who is my cinematographer, who I worked very closely to put together the shots. I drew really terrible comic book sketches of what I wanted to to see, and then Ryo then made a whole animated version of it and made everyone look real just through sketch form. And then we used that to really guide us through our set days. And helped our lighting crew and our gaffer Ken, who is an he’s also a DP as well, but he came on to just help light and lug lights [00:15:00] around and our production designers.
Who were exquisite as well. They were two Taiwanese girls, Zelia and Cynthia. I went to Cynthia first, Cynthia Wu to ask if she would be willing to help us, and Cynthia was like, I would be willing to help you. Of course, I love this story, but I’m going to have a baby when you are. I’m going to pop out my first baby.
When, when you’re, you planning to film. So we moved our filming date two months later because we wanted Cynthia so bad, and Cynthia had never had an experience to make such an authentic, at least this is what she has told me, has never made an authentic Asian American film like this because she has worked with many Caucasian white directors, American directors who aren’t very sensitive to ,they’d like to be, but who aren’t very detailed and sensitive to those authentic kind of production [00:16:00] design.
So she took it upon herself, like said, this is my opportunity to really dive into this and make it authentic because we do have a director that wants it to be living and feeling 626. One huge thing is the altar and. The altar is this two leveled altar that my mom used to have. And we had this beautiful pearly white Guanyin Pusa that was standing right in the middle of it.
And I remember that was my experience growing up, just going into my living room and seeing this. So I thought that set piece needed to be accurate, and those things cost thousands of dollars. We don’t have that anymore, so I had to look around and see, and maybe could we make it, but it’s so intricate on the sides.
The arms of it are like carved wood and it’s almost impossible to do it on a cheaper budget. But luckily our producer, Jonathan Chung-Young, who grew up the same way I did in 626 had an auntie who was transitioning into Christianity who had the [00:17:00] exact, it looked like a replica of this altar.
She was like, you know what? I don’t even use it anymore. I have the Guanyin Pusa just standing there. And it was dusty too. And she like, you want me to clean it? I was like, no, no, no, no. This is perfect. Don’t clean it. And then authentic dust. Yeah. I’ll tell you of the experience where I had to how I got this altar because God bless Auntie Fang, she’s wonderful.
She let us film at her house, but she’s more of a cautious person. So before she had let all twenty of us onto her own property to film in her living room, she had me do this practice. I think it’s like, I’m gonna butcher the name. It’s called bāguà. It’s the dice rolling. It’s like these two little acorn shaped things where if it faces up two pieces and if both pieces face up, it means yes, I believe if both pieces face down, it means no.
If one is facing up and the other is facing down, that means try again, ask again, or be more specific in your [00:18:00] ask.
Virginia: Be more specific.
Anthony: Yeah. She was like, she was like, okay. Before you I allow you to do this, you have to ask Guanyin Pusa pray to her. Introduce yourself and ask her if you could do this.
So ask her this first question. Can I film you and your, your space? I think that was my question. And then I rolled it two pieces with this like acorn shaped thing and then bam, two pieces facing up, which meant Yes. And I was like, oh, okay. Was that luck? I don’t know. Let’s do it. And she’s like, okay, now ask her, ’cause she was still hesitant. She’s like, now ask her, do you know who I am? Anthony. Anthony Ma. I’m like, oh God. Okay. Okay. And I did it again, and then bam. Two pieces facing up, which means yes. Again, I was like, oh, Jesus, please. And then she said, okay, now ask the specific date and time if it’s okay with her to film on this day and that.
And then I was like, oh God, okay, here we go. And I did it again, and then bam, two pieces [00:19:00] facing up, it said yes. And I was like, I don’t know what’s working up there. I don’t know what was happening, but like three yeses is almost like impossible.
But like, holy crap. But yeah, something was looking out for us to really, you know, push us to make this film. So I felt very grateful with every, every decision, every person that was a part of this, that that really helped us. So yeah, crazy parts of it.
Virginia: Okay. Can I,
Anthony: Yeah.
Virginia: Did you ask in Chinese, or did you ask in English?
Anthony: I think Chinglish. Yeah, but mainly English. I would say mainly in English, because when I was a kid, I used to pray in English too. Oh. And that was my prayer language. When I went to Hsi Lai Shi, the temple in Covina area in the hills. That was what I used just in English. I’m sure a lot of other Asian American kids did that too.
Virginia: Yeah, yeah.
Anthony: Yeah. Well,
Virginia: I only ask because I’m always [00:20:00] curious. Mm-hmm. If our old gods, when they traveled to the new country, if they had to learn English or if they just, because they’re gods, then they just know it. Like whatever their people know, they know it or whatever. Or like,
Anthony: is there, I just find it there, like an Eastern Tower of Babel or something like that.
Yeah. Like I just, you know.
Virginia: I find it, you know, interesting
Stella: Duolingo for the gods, like Yeah, like Right. Exactly.
I think if enough people pray in English to the gods, you know, ’cause they’re there to hear mm-hmm. The voices of their people, but
Anthony: Right.
Stella: It’s wild. When I saw the altar in this film, I was like, oh, okay.
No, I see where we are because I’m Korean American, but I grew up with some Taiwanese friends. Yeah. And whenever I went to visit their houses, I was like, okay, this is a Taiwanese house in the nineties. Like, I know where I am. And it was just, it was incredible.
Anthony: Cynthia and Zelia did a wonderful job.
Cynthia was raising, well, Cynthia set everything, or bought everything and gathered everything. And Zelia was the one that set dressed and [00:21:00] both their eyes were amazing, and I couldn’t have really done it with anybody on this team really. Again, I assembled a crack team and I owe it all to them.
And I was very passionate about this, so I, I hope that I had instilled in a, some passion in them to really, tell this story. And I think it did well,
Virginia: but, oh, it was great. Yeah, it was great.
Was it weird seeing something that was so personal? Of course everything we make is informed by our experiences.
Right. But this is almost like a retelling. Mm-hmm. With creative liberties of something that actually happened to you. Yeah. So did you ever feel like, Hey, no, this isn’t how it happened, so you need to do it like this? How did you, I guess, balance accuracy, quote unquote?
Yeah, because I mean, are our memories are actually accurate. Who knows? Mm-hmm. And how much of it was like, no, this is just craft.
Anthony: Mm-hmm.
Oh, that’s a great question. We found ourselves in those kind of positions [00:22:00] where we needed to make a decision where is it accuracy or the storytelling craft.
I had always thought in the back of my head that this could be a great episode of something or a great short. So I’ve had this story and this experience in the back of my head for so long. Short answer is: we had this theme of protection as our moral compass.
So when Ryo was editing the film when I was writing the script, it was quite helpful and a great reminder. I think for me, this was 85% true. All the broad strokes of things, just the details were bent a little bit. So through the script writing process, I originally thought that this was going to be just a, not a hard drama, but I always like to instill either a little bit of comedy or a lot of comedy into mm-hmm my stuff. But I felt like I wanted it to be a sophisticated, a respectable comedy, you know? So while I [00:23:00] was writing it with that kind of layer instilled it to the script, it was very therapeutic. I revisited it in a way where I’m like, yeah, sure, this Christian pastor traumatized me when I was a kid. But I thought about it in a way where I thought about it from his side now.
Virginia: Mm-hmm.
Anthony: As actors do, even if we’re playing the worst villains, we have to think, why is he doing this? So because of thinking about him and thinking about my mom really boiled up this protection theme.
And then when I told Rio, who works very closely to me, my DP and editor, and he’s also the composer by the way, he was guided by that as well. So there was one moment within the editing process where he sat down, he said, I don’t think your mom’s crazy enough. I don’t think it’s balanced. It still feels like the Christians are crazier than your mom.
And I’m like, really? Because my mom went livid after she found out about what happened that night. So I was like, okay. My mom used to throw in these paper tigers [00:24:00] and paper ships to protect me and throw in these paper material into a waste basket filled with fire every morning to protect me when I was going through a really hard time.
But it was a specific kind of ritual. It was called da xiao ren, which means hitting small people. So what she believed in when I was a kid, when I was in high school, going through a rough time, she believed that there were small spirits out there that were motivating these harder situations in my life.
So what she did was pray and also get one of my shoes, write down all the problems in my life and all the problematic people in my life and their names, and my shoe would pretty much stomp and step on this stack of paper. It would just step on it overnight.
And in the morning we’d wake up really early in the morning, burn a trash trash can of fire, and then start doing this ritual, throwing this paper in. And then we would throw in the papers with the names on it. Then we would throw a [00:25:00] paper tiger “lao hu zou,” meaning the tiger probably is going to chasing and attack it.
And then there was a paper ship that we had to throw into the fire as well. Which meant, okay, “chuan song,” have the ship deliver. So it was a crazy, almost like witchcraft ritual that I did just willy-nilly, ’cause I didn’t really know what was going on. My mom has raised me like this.
I’m 16 years old. I’m looking at my neighbor freaking out. Like, what the hell are you doing? My neighbors were black at the time. They’re like, Hey, what y’all doing? I’m like, it’s just Buddhist stuff. And Oh, all right. But yeah, I used that as, as example and then Ryo was like, Hey, we need that ’cause that sounds, if you haven’t done it before, it is just like Virginia when you said like, I don’t think that’s crazy. I didn’t think that’s crazy. But if, when you’re outside of it, that sounds pretty hardcore, man. I told Ryo that didn’t really happen during that time, that only happened in high school for me.
And then Ryo’s like, well, it’s on you. Whatever you feel could add to it and balance both [00:26:00] sides. But he gave his opinion. I was like, you’re absolutely right. I think we should do this. And you know, my mom being my mom, she also bends rules too.
So in this “God and Buddha Are Friends” universe, this version of my mom could have just done the same thing, you know? I had to let go of that sort of accurate moment and just put it into my film to help tell the story a little better.
Virginia: Yeah. That’s so cool.
Stella: So I personally really love a title drop. For people who don’t know, a title drop is when a character says the title of the work in the work ’cause we love a self-referential work. Like we love that. I was not expecting the title drop to happen the way that it did.
What was it like? I mean, that was a wild title drop. I was like, oh, this is incredible.
Anthony: Nice. I’m so happy because at another film festival they said you should have just called it “God and Buddha,” you ruined that moment. I was like, wait, what? Who are you, old white man?
I felt like it was a great title, and it could be a misleading title as well, because like what you said, you didn’t know [00:27:00] when the title drop was going to be. It might be a statement like, this is the message of the film, but yeah. I don’t know. There’s nothing more to it really. I was like, okay, that’s the perfect title. I’m just gonna have that.
Stella: It is the perfect traumedy moment. It was incredible. So, yes. Thank you for the title drop. I was like, oh, this is all I wanted.
Anthony: Yes. Good.
I’m glad you clicked with all the moments and the details and resonated with all of that. That’s just a dream for any, even longtime filmmaker or new filmmaker to hear that we have all these things that we really meticulously put into and all these really finite decisions put into it, and then having it to be seen and heard and felt.
Is just the biggest compliment. So, so thank you.
Stella: Thank you for making this film. And so to kind of go along that theme though, you’ve been really involved in supporting Asian American representation in the industry for a while. You mentioned like co-founding [00:28:00] the Taiwanese American Film Festival. You were the executive director from 2017 to 2019.
Your current film is showing at a lot of Asian American film festivals, so mm-hmm. Where do you feel like Asian American films are going? Like, what’s your forecast?
Anthony: Oh my gosh, what a great question. Okay, so I’ll give you some context of where I came from as an actor early in 2009.
I think that’s when I started stepping into acting professionally. And at that time, obviously the only roles available were those stereotypical roles. You could play a ninja or a nerd or a best friend. Right?
I’ll tell you, one of my most memorable auditions that I’ve ever been to was for this feature film. I think they said it was at the time, made by the Scary Movie guys. The comedy Scary Movie franchise. And we went in and we didn’t have any context. Usually they send you some sides or parts of the scripts [00:29:00] to, to audition with. And I remember stepping into this lobby and then I saw a bunch of me’s.
We got Ki Hong Lee from “Maze Runner.” Randall Park wasn’t there, but he could have been earlier. Tim Chiou. A lot of people that are working nowadays who are just looking for their first or second or third job. During that moment, we were all in the same room. And then I remember you have to sign in and above the sign in sheet, there was a sign that said, “If you’re offended by this material, you don’t have to audition.”
And then I was like, uhoh. And then I signed in, I looked at the sides, and we all had to audition for this character where we played a Japanese tourist overlooking a neighboring city being destroyed by a giant naked white man. And our only line was we had to put down our binoculars and say, in the most stereotypical racist accent, “Wow, I’ve never seen one that big.”[00:30:00]
So all of us had to go into that room and say that to two white ladies that were sitting there who also looked very guilty. They’re like, why did we even, we don’t wanna do this. And we’re sorry, but can you do it in a more stereotypical accent? Just a little bit more? And again, we’re sorry. So all of us had to do that.
All of us walked out with our heads hanging low. And that was 2009, 10, maybe 11. And to be quite honest, obviously it’s night and day. I can’t say that it’s total opposite, but it’s a vast significant improvement from when I started. And really, to be quite honest, I think there’s major benchmarks.
There’s “Fresh Off the Boat,” and then there was a lot of in between that we’re trying. And then “Crazy Rich Asians” brought us to another level, and then there were, there’s a craze of let’s make another like “Emperor of [00:31:00] Malibu,” that was like a, a knockoff of like fresh of “Fresh Prince of Bel Air,” but with a crazy rich Asian stereotype.
You know? And that never came through. I’m sorry for the people that try to make it, but I’m very glad that we didn’t continue that, you know, and expanded on more stories that that show different kinds of Asians and different kind of financial classes and different kinds of situations.
So I feel like now, because we have proven that our stories can resonate with so many people, with even “Everything Everywhere All At Once,” I think Korea’s been doing a fantastic job. They’ve been doing it since I was in high school, trying to come here with their entertainment. And they finally established it.
I think “Squid Game” also like, like blew up this door if it wasn’t for “Squid Game.” I wouldn’t have a job today dubbing so many Korean series. So yeah, I think we’re at a point where anything could be possible, but also with the state of Hollywood, they’re very [00:32:00] selective now. And from what I’ve just heard, we’re in a good place as Asian Americans in our stories.
We have “Interior Chinatown,” which was just so good. I felt that was just a great way to tell what we go through, as Asians, in this really weird, twisted way. I think, Charles Yu did wonderful. But now because of the state of Hollywood, everything’s moving outta here. There’s less jobs there’s less writing jobs as well.
It may sort of, and I don’t want to sound bleak, it may sort of hurt the frequency of Asian American projects. Not saying they’ll totally put an end to our stories, they find potential in our stories for sure. And they find that our stories make money.
Right. And we can star in our own series and movies now. But just like everyone else, whether you’re Black or Latino or Asian it’s, or even white right now, it’s been quite hard. But I can’t say quite as [00:33:00] hard. But, but yeah. Yeah, it’s been quite hard.
I actually would like to even give a nod to “Sinners.” I think “Sinners,” the business behind how they put together “Sinners” is very, I wouldn’t say anti studio, but making deals that the studio would really not find quite, they wouldn’t like it.
Stella: Right.
Anthony: Let’s just say, but Ryan Coogler
Stella: Very unfavorable to getting his rights back in 25 years. I am so excited.
Anthony: Right, right. And obviously you see they put some Chinese American characters in there.
Virginia: Mm-hmm. Mississippi ’cause of the Delta, the
Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve all seen those videos if you track Asian American stuff.
But to see that in a wide released film. Mm-hmm. That’s awesome. That’s really great. Yeah. So at least we have some allies who aren’t Asian to implement us and tell different stories about us in a very respectful manner. So I see somewhat of a balanced future where we’ve moved and [00:34:00] improved so much.
Virginia: Do you see Asian programming from Asia as competition to Asian American stories? ’cause I mean, we know it’s not because it’s different context, different stories, different examinations of what it means to be Asian, right? Mm-hmm. Because, it’s one thing to be in the minority versus the majority mm-hmm. But I don’t necessarily think the powers that be, so to speak mm-hmm can have the nuance Yeah in seeing the difference. So as both an actor and a director and Yeah writer, how do you see it?
Anthony: I think that’s a great, wonderful question. It needs to be talked about too.
I think the first thing that comes to mind is that now general audiences, I hope, at least the ones that understand that there’s a difference between Asian American stories like “Beef” versus something like “Squid Game,” you know? Right, right, right. There’s Korean Americans and there’s [00:35:00] Koreans. Right. So I guess more modern generations will understand that ’cause they’re now growing up with that.
I have spoken to some higher ups in CEOs that still don’t understand the difference, which is completely insane when I ask, what do you see foresee in the future for like Asian American content or Asian content? And then all he could say is like, oh man, Korea’s doing so good.
You know? And I’m like, that’s not entirely the best answer. Yes, it is. They are doing great. It’s a double-edged sword where it’s like we have been fighting for so long to be seen and be resonated with as leading characters. Mm-hmm. And now finally we can see Asian faces, whether they speak English, Korean, Chinese, Japanese.
Now people will follow us and, and follow us to the end through our stories and be riveted and be compelled by our stories and feelings and emotions. And we’re good looking [00:36:00] now apparently, you know, and we’re all that. But I don’t know. It’s a weird, like little, it’s a great question too.
It’s confusing me a bit because I’m like, I don’t find it as competition because it’s helping in some ways. Mm-hmm. But also it’s not competition because it’s a total different industry, and the Asian Americans here in this industry aren’t writing for Korea, aren’t writing for China.
They’re writing here and building this industry to make American cinema history not Korean cinema. So I think there’s a difference when it comes to that. It just really just depends on the buyer or the audience. ’cause there’s some people that like “Squid Game,” there’s people like my mom likes that “Detective Attorney…”
what is that? The
Virginia: Oh, “Extraordinary Woo.”
Anthony: She’ll only watch that. She won’t watch “Squid Game.” But she won’t watch “Beef,” she won’t watch “Interior Chinatown.” My mom won’t watch any of that. But there are other people that only watch “Interior Chinatown.” Mm-hmm. They love “Beef.” So it just depends on [00:37:00] the audience now, what they prefer.
And we have so much shit out there. It’s not just Asian American stuff, it’s just so much to choose from. So I’m the kind of guy that is more like, we’ll see what will happen, but also look at the things that are, are working for us as well.
Stella: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like what was the series? Was it “Deli Boys,” Virginia?
Anthony: How was that? I haven’t caught it, but how is it? You’ve seen some?
Virginia: No, you must.
Anthony: Yeah
Virginia: It is the best thing I’ve seen all year. I haven’t seen “Sinners” yet. It is fantastic.
Anthony: Yeah.
Stella: To go to Virginia’s point asking about whether these are competitive industries, it’s been kind of exciting to see Bollywood films get more popular. Yeah. Like, and of course, like people who, Desi people have known that Bollywood films are the shit like forever. They’ve always known.
Yeah. But western audiences finally figured it out. And so to see a series like “Deli Boys” do really well is like, oh my God, yes. This is that bridge.
Anthony: Yeah. Yeah.
Virginia: And the best part about “Deli Boys” is they’re all [00:38:00] dumb asses.
Stella: Yes.
Anthony: I could tell, I could tell my
Virginia: Those two mains, the two main stars are dumb asses.
Anthony: Yeah. Yeah.
Stella: Justice for dumb Asians.
Anthony: Exactly. And please cast me as one. I’m close to, close to being that too. I play a good dumb Asian, so. Yeah. Yeah.
Virginia: I’m curious, what stories do you still want to tell or what kind of stories, do you find yourself telling over and over again, but like different, different ways, if that makes sense.
I feel like everybody has like, maybe three to five stories that they can’t stop writing about.
Anthony: Mm. Or thinking about or writing in their head for sure. So like,
Virginia: Or, or thematically.
Anthony: And Virginia, you probably relate to this too. There’s a therapeutic thing that comes with writing because you just need to get it out.
And when you keep thinking about these stories in your head, and mainly because of these traumatic experiences that you wanna put into, say visual form [00:39:00] or into a book or anything like that, when you start writing it, it feels like therapy. You’re looking at it in a different way, right?
I’ve been thinking about completing a trilogy. “God and Buddha Are Friends” is like a first of my mom’s stories that I want to dedicate to her. ’cause there’s been, I mean, there’s been some traumatic moments with my mom and I, that we’ve either experienced together or experienced against each other as well.
So I really would like to complete these two other stories. And also always implement some sort of lighthearted comedy into it in my kind of style in that kind of way. I’m always attracted to true stories.
Virginia: Okay. Did you already ask questions about craft Stella, or are there any other questions you wanna ask?
Stella: I always throw in like some really dorky questions. Do you want me to ask them right now?
Virginia: Okay. Ask. Ask.
Anthony: Yeah.
Stella: I just wanna preface this by saying that when I give these options, there is no superior choice. I don’t want listeners to come [00:40:00] after me. There is no superior choice here.
Okay? Mm-hmm. So Anthony, as a voice actor, I have to know. Yeah. Do you prefer subs or dubs?
Anthony: Oh, subs. I’d never listen to my friends or me, man. Like, come on. When you grew up as an Asian American watching even Jackie Chan or Korean shows, it’s always subs. Even anime too. Anime I have to watch in subs.
Even some of the dubs don’t even like hit. It doesn’t. So although I don’t wanna discount how far dubbing has gone, they really have improved the craft of dubbing. When I first stepped into dubbing, I was actually very impressed by how specific they are in matching and trying their best to adapt to correct sentence to fit the, the lip flaps. I was like, oh, I thought you guys just didn’t care. But no, but since “Squid Game,” bam, it opened a new door for really more [00:41:00] focus on those parts.
Stella: Dubs have come a long way since the nineties.
Some people, they can’t read or like when they’re trying to watch and read something, like their brain glitches out or maybe you’re working on something like you wanna knit. Nobody wants to be looking up and down. So like I get it that, that,
Anthony: that’s what I’ve heard from dubs.
’cause I’m like, who listens to this? And I ask the directors and the producers of it, and they’re like, I don’t know, they don’t give us the numbers, but they do say it’s because people would rather just do something else while they’re watching. So, washing dishes or, like you said Stella. So Yeah.
Stella: Folding laundry, cooking, like, whatever it is
Virginia: And even accessibility
Stella: Again, no superior inferior options. Just preferences.
My other dumb question. Okay. When you were doing, “God and Buddha Are Friends,” did anybody ever mention “Saint Young Men” to you?
Anthony: I am sorry. Say that one more time.
Stella: Did anyone ever mention “Saint Young Men”?
Anthony: “Saint Young Men”? No, I had, okay.
Stella: It’s a manga. It’s a [00:42:00] slice of life comedy. It’s a comic, and it’s about Jesus and Buddha as roommates in modern day Tokyo, and they’re young men.
Anthony: Oh, okay. I’ve heard about that.
Stella: They’re young men.
Anthony: Yeah, I’ve heard about that.
Stella: And they’re trying to acclimate to Japanese culture.
Anthony: I didn’t hear the title, but I heard about something like that where they’re like college roommates. That is hilarious.
Stella: So you mentioned being from the 626. For listeners who don’t know, that’s an area code for San Gabriel Valley Arcadia, what else is over there? Alhambra? Pasadena. Pasadena. Yeah. San Marino. I grew up in the 310, which is like coastal LA but mm-hmm, the only time I have ever been in a Target and surrounded by Asians was in Arcadia, 60% Asian now. Yeah. Did growing up surrounded by Asians inform the way you think about being Asian or the kinds of stories you wanna tell?
Because a lot of media about us is us as the only Asian in a sea of white people. But for you and me, that [00:43:00] is not how we grew up.
Anthony: So yeah, you’re right. For me it was 60% Asian all the time. And most of them were Taiwanese, Chinese.
I had some Korean friends. I was the only Asian at the time, or one of the two Asians, three Asians in my football team because in my high school it was sort of flipped. On TV you would see the jocks as the most popular people and cheerleaders as the most popular people. Ours was our band, and the drum major was the most hottest guy on earth.
So I was gonna say when you’re from the 626, or if you’re like a SoCal Asian, and I’ve heard about this, SoCal Asians are very just cocky, you know? And, and when you’re in the 626, you feel even more self-indulgent about being Asian because you’re surrounded by this culture and you’re the majority.
In college, when I did come out of the 626 and opened my world up to racism. ’cause I never had anyone call me a chink or say anything that was aggressive about my [00:44:00] race. I had to experience that in New York of all places.
I learned a lot and that’s what made me go into wanting to be in this Asian American film community and pushed me to use my strengths as a storyteller to help us solve this problem of being seen in this country. It was just foreign to me of being, I can’t say top dog because we were watching TV and none of us were on TV, and we were still made fun of for being Asian at our school, but it never felt like we were alone.
It was a very prideful Asian upbringing, and I’m glad that I had that because I’m very sensitive and very vulnerable.
If I didn’t have this foundation, this imposter syndrome might be worse.
Stella: So Virginia and I have talked on the podcast before about how we’ve evolved and changed so much over the course of our lifetimes.
And we are always in the process of becoming, and she and I are so much happier now with who we are than who we were in the past. [00:45:00] Yeah. And so how do you feel about who you’ve become and you’re becoming?
Anthony: Oh my gosh. Like I’ve mentioned, I was going through a lot prior to this film., I would say 2023.
Prior to that for a good 10 to 15 years, I was probably going through depression and anxiety throughout those years. And I just didn’t know it until the latter years. I was at a place where I just didn’t like myself very much, and when I was in a room filled with people, I’d feel very alone.
I think in 2023, that was when I was tired of it, you know? Mm. I’ve had all these amazing friends around me. I have so much love around me. I have two kids that are just adorable and I adore them. I have a great mom. What is going on? And then I felt like it’s because I need to make something.
Mm. I need to really make something yeah. To feel this way and feel sort of proud of myself and pick myself up again. And it was been a long journey and I, I give it all to not just “God and Buddha Are Friends,” but during the course of [00:46:00] “God and Buddha Are Friends,” while we were making it, my wife this is gonna be a heavy handed right here. My wife is diagnosed with stage three breast cancer during our three days into crowdfunding for this film. She knew how much this meant to me. And then I asked her, do you think I should just stop, just call it quits?
’cause this is huge. I can’t do this while we’re going through therapy or chemotherapy or immunotherapy. And she was like, well, this is your dream. You have to do this. So I owe it all to her to continue this. And while we were going through chemo, we were making this film, and we had to raise our two kids.
Luckily we had my in-laws staying with me over here as well. And during that time, if I had that same mental health that I had years prior, I don’t think I would be as strong in holding everything up. So then it’s a series of unfortunate events that really and fortunate events.
It’s a mixture. 2024 was [00:47:00] crazy. A balancing act of all these things that really felt like I passed this threshold of becoming this new, I wouldn’t say better version of me, but improved version that is still trying to improve. I love myself a lot more than I have ever really love myself in a long time.
And that’s all due to my friends, my family, my wife, her health, my kids, and this journey that I went through with “God and Buddha Are Friends.” Yeah.
Virginia: How, how is your wife now?
Anthony: My wife is great now. Sorry. The most important thing, I did not say. Everything’s fine right now. And of course, we all wish everything continues this way and nothing happens. Right.
Virginia: We love to hear it. All right. So can you tell our listeners where they can follow you or with a movie or both?
Anthony: Yes. I’m usually active on Instagram, and you can find me at @AnthonyMa.
You can find, God and Buddha are friends with the same name too at @godandbuddhaarefriends. A [00:48:00] N D Buddha are friends. That’s where we post most of our stuff. Most of our updates, there’s a lot of BTS looks when you follow “God and Buddha Are Friends.” Message me and I’d love to talk to you. Yeah.
Stella: Brazen Nation, we highly encourage you to check out this film. Check out Anthony Ma’s works. We had so much fun talking to him today.
So thank you so much for joining us, Anthony.
Anthony: Of course. Thank you for this, you guys. It was wonderful. Had so much fun.
Stella: All right, friends, that was the podcast. I was your co-host Stella.
Virginia: And I was your cohost, Virginia
Anthony: And I am Asian jim Carrey, Anthony Ma.
Photo credit: Cathryn Farnsworth
