The following is an auto-generated transcript of the Brazn Azn podcast Episode 19. It also includes affiliate links that do not affect the price you pay, but allows me to recoup some of our costs. Please excuse any mistakes or misspellings as we do not have the time nor bandwidth to edit.
Show notes
In this episode of the Brazn Azn podcast, co-hosts Stella and Virginia discuss the complexities of parenting at different stages, career ambitions, and personal growth. They also explore the broader themes of vulnerability, dissatisfaction, and the brazenness to pursue personal dreams in the face of societal expectations.
- Navigating Life’s Transitional Phases
- Feeling Stuck and Behind
- Vulnerability of Pursuing Dreams
- Societal Expectations and Gender Roles
- Coping Mechanisms and Personal Growth
Listen to Brazn Azn Ep 19
Transcript
[00:00:00]
Stella: Hello, Brazen Nation. This is the Brazn Azn podcast, and I’m your co host, Stella.
Virginia: And I’m your other co host, Virginia Duan. I am the entertainment editor for Mochi Magazine, as well as a freelance writer and an author of two books, the latest of which is called “Weightless.” If you like angst, if you like steamy romances, if you like found families and messy, messy people, then this is the one for you.
And it’s also set in K-pop, so check it out. Oh yes, today we’re going to talk about cycles of change and our complicated feelings about it.
Stella: So I think I’m in a phase in life where most of my friends are going through a lot of transitional stages, a lot of the people in my circle are moms.
And so most of us are naturally moving into this phase where your kids are getting older and you’re getting [00:01:00] older. So we’re also going to ask questions, is this really what I want to be doing for the rest of my life?
Virginia: Even
Stella: My friends who don’t have kids are kind of asking themselves these big questions.
Maybe it’s because we’re in our forties now, we’re sort of contemplating , what is the next decade going to look like? . So, I mean, at this point I was a homeschool mom for nearly a decade and now I’m not, and my older two are teenagers. But I also have a toddler who’s not going to be in school school for a little while.
So I feel like I’m in this really tricky position where my peers are moving along in this transitional phase. And there are ways that I’m joining them, but also ways that I’m not like, I feel very stuck, right? And so I wanted to ask you, Virginia, I know you also have teens and toddlers and kids all in between, but you’re also in the middle of writing and publishing your first series, you’re really hard launching your writing career.
It’s going places. And so do you feel like you’re also in a transitional phase [00:02:00] or that you’re stuck or you’re just progressing? Like, where are you at?
Virginia: So before I go on, I want to clarify by transitional phase. Do you mean like a transition in parenting or do you mean like transitions in career?
Like when you talk about your friends feeling stuck, is it the career that they’re stuck in or they don’t know if they want to stay a stay at home parent or yeah, I guess, what do you mean exactly?
Stella: I think for a lot of people that I’m around right now, it’s like they’ve been either in their career or they’ve been a stay at home parent for 5 to 10 years at this point, and their kids are getting to the point now where they have more self sufficiency, like all of their children are now in school or some of their, you know, some of their kids have like, they’ve gone off to college and now it’s an empty nest. And so it’s kind of this question of like, well, shit, is this what I want to be doing now that I have the prospect of having more time to focus on me, my career, my health.
And so I think that’s really like, [00:03:00] it’s, it’s partially because of. Parenting stuff that they have more mental space, but even my friends who aren’t parenting are like, Hey, I’m in my forties now. Is this what I thought I would be doing? And if it’s not, do I need to change something?
Virginia: Okay. Okay. What was your question to me?
Stella: Do you feel like you’re also sort of transitioning or do you feel like you’ve already finished coming into a new phase? Or do you often feel stuck?
Virginia: I constantly feel stuck and behind. I feel like people are moving on without me. So it’s weird because after I had my fourth child, who I thought was going to be my last child, and, he hit three ish, four ish, and then stopped being so clingy.
And so that’s when I started really pushing hard, getting more freelance writing and I really pushed hard for that. And then the pandemic [00:04:00] hit and then kind of had to pivot because I mean, I already had the kids home all the time and I felt like in the pandemic, my writing really hit a stride. And then I got really burnt out because I was writing so much.
I think one year I published 165 articles, which is like one every three days.
Stella: Yeah, that’s wild.
Virginia: Yeah, that’s a lot. And then I think I also did a bunch of podcasts and reaction videos and stuff like that, so I was really tired. So the year after that, I think I dropped down to like under a hundred, but that’s still a lot.
And then I got pregnant and I was really mad that I was pregnant because, because the way it works in our household, I don’t know if it works that way for other people, but in our household, the babies belong to me until they’re about three, and then they belong to my husband.
And by that, I mean, like, who’s the primary parent responsible for this person? So we play clearly zone defense. And our zone, [00:05:00] my zone is. birth to toddlerhood. And then he gets them because they all like him better anyway, which is fine. And so I, I was like, shit, I’m going to be stuck with a baby for three years.
That’s going to put everything that I have on that I want to do on hold. And so I kind of feel, and that whole year I was pregnant, it was really rough. I was tired all the time. I had anemia, like the baby just. It sucked everything out of me, which is fine because that’s what a parasite is supposed to do.
And I love her, but yeah so I think I felt really, really behind and I, I see, and I know comparison is the thief of joy because I’m sure a lot of people see me and go, wow, she’s doing all these things and like, well, I can’t get my life together. And I’ve discussed it a little bit about like, Oh, like finding time to write and feeling like you’re not, how come you’re not writing and feeling like bad about yourself that way.
So when I say [00:06:00] that it isn’t to make like people who maybe feel like I’m ahead of them feel bad. I just mean that comparison is a thief of joy.
So when I see a lot of people who, who they’re my friends too, and I’m actually really, really proud of them.
So I don’t mean this in a, in a kind of way but I see a lot of people who I either advised, gave advice to, and I mean, and I say this for like my blogs, people who wanted to do Chinese stuff who asked me for advice friends who just. I had questions about blogs in general, , and maybe it’s because I know so many writers.
But I kept seeing a friend after a friend get book deal after book deal. And I’m like, and again, I’m very proud of them, I really want them to succeed. Hopefully we can have them on our podcast. This is not like a, oh, I’m bitter that they’re succeeding and I’m not because I firmly believe that a person reads more than one book their whole [00:07:00] life.
Right, yeah. Right? So even, even in a week, right? So like I, I feel like the more the merrier. I firmly believe that and also I was just like, but these people came up behind me or started after me or whatever, and part of me is just like, well, I didn’t hustle as much or I have, you know, like, whatever, when part of it’s true, like I took a whole year off.
Gestating a human, you know but yeah, so I, I think I feel very behind also like, Oh, maybe my career would be, maybe I would have put out more books, which is ridiculous because I feel like two books a year is already pretty fast. But that’s a lot, that is a lot of output, but I mean,
Stella: There are some authors that have had a decade,
Virginia: Right?
Or two. And again, that’s where I think comparison is that thief of joy. So if I allow myself to go down this spiral, then I do feel stuck. I feel very behind. It’s like, Oh, all these people [00:08:00] started off their freelance career or their writing career or whatever thing that we have in common. And they were either, either we started at the same time or they were behind me or just slightly ahead.
But I feel like, oh, they’re doing so much better than me. Then I get a little upset, you know? So I try not to do that because one, I don’t want to see my friends and peers as competition.
Stella: Yeah. Yeah.
Virginia: And then two, who knows if they’re actually happy,
Stella: Right? No, no, no, it’s so true.
Virginia: And they might not even be satisfied with what they have.
You know, they might feel like, they might feel behind, like, oh, Virginia did this, right? Like, so I feel like it’s, it’s not productive and it doesn’t make me happy to think that way. I don’t think I actually answered your question.
Stella: That’s okay.
Virginia: But yes, I feel stuck, [00:09:00] you know, even though it might not look like I’m stuck.
Stella: Right. Like from the outside, it’s like, Oh my God, she’s working on her third book. The second one’s coming out, you know. Fall of 2024, like, we are moving, moving, moving, but I can also appreciate that, , your internal landscape on this is really different than what people are seeing from outside. Mm.
Virginia: Mm hmm.
I think that also depends on what part of my life we’re specifically talking about.
Like my career, I don’t mind because I accept that I had a child and I feel like it’s unreasonable to expect so much what I, it’s unreasonable to compare what I did this year, maybe like the, for the second year of her life with the year we were all in a pandemic and everyone was at home and, [00:10:00] and I put, and I published 165 articles, right?
It’s a completely different landscape, completely different life cycle, like completely different stage. Right? So in that sense, I don’t feel quite as behind in terms of writing, but it just depends on what part of my writing, like for the books, like novels, I chose a particular route and I feel like I’m doing okay.
Maybe it’s not as great as other people, but I’m pretty satisfied with that. But maybe for the freelance writing, I’m like, Oh, I’m really behind. I’m not really pitching as much and blah, blah, blah, blah. Or for, you know, other, other stuff like my blog, I’ve just. Let it kind of go, it just, it just earns its little, just does what it can, but if we compare to raising children, then I feel like I restarted the clock like all over again, like, oh my God, this baby, I don’t even remember how to potty train.
You know, I think, yeah, I never remember. Actually, every, every child I keep forgetting. [00:11:00] I’m like, how do we do this? Yeah. So I think it also just depends on the area of life, you know?
So I feel like I’ve talked a lot about nothing. So. We’ve talked before about feeling how, , we’re relearning the same lessons over and over again in life, and I can’t remember whether, what episode it was, but I’m pretty sure we’ve talked about it. Yeah. And I don’t know, I really hate how my family keeps just opening and closing doors, opening and closing doors.
Why don’t they just open the door, keep it open, and then just everybody go in, and then everybody close the fucking door.
Like, there’s certain things in my family that I just don’t understand people. That is one of them. The other is the inability to put on a fucking fitted sheet. Or a pillowcase or a duvet cover. Like, I don’t understand what’s so hard about putting a rectangle on top of a rectangle or into a rectangle. I just, I don’t know.
There’s even elastic.
Yeah. Yes. Why is it so hard? All right. Have you experienced being stuck while [00:12:00] people are moving along or just feeling like you’re in the middle of a transition? So like, is this your first time feeling this way or is it, you know, a thing that you recall feeling before and how did you deal with it?
Stella: Yeah. Yeah Well, so my older two now are teens But I definitely I feel like I went through this when my older two were toddlers, right? Because the majority of my friends then We’re not having kids. They were really starting to hard launch their careers. And so very few of my friends had kids when I did, or if they were having kids, it was typically closer to my, my younger, well, now my second child, my second child’s age.
So I kind of went through the beginnings of motherhood, especially with our first kid alone.
And I didn’t have a lot of people in my life who were parenting, so we were like the first ones to have kids, we were the first ones to have a second kid, and it was a really frustrating feeling to be like, you know, [00:13:00] like people were finishing up grad school or med school, law school, people were, yeah, like people were moving forward and get, , like getting married and I’m like, I’ve been married at this point for five years, , six or seven years.
And so it was, It was really tough, and I remember, it was, I, I’m actually kind of grateful right now that I have so many more tools than I did back then, because it was awful back then. It was awful. The first time I had toddlers, and my toddlers were great. My kids were, any, anybody who watched my kids was like, were like, they were so easy.
They, they were really, truly very easy toddlers. They were an easy entry into parenthood. But I did not deal with it well, right. Right. And so, yeah, I think. The frustration of uncertainty was really hard because I never knew when I would have any time to myself. Are they going to nap? Are they not? Are they Right, the napping is the huge one.
Or like, [00:14:00] is somebody going to be home late so that I have to take them for another two hours? Is the schedule going to work out? Is, you know, all these things so that anytime I was like, I just need a morning to myself. It’s really hard to get. And then by the time they were in preschool and stuff, it was, I was driving them everywhere.
Right? There’s so much driving, right? Yeah. And just never feeling like I could catch up on anything, laundry, dishes, housework, anything. I just felt like I was constantly drowning and I’m starting to feel that again now where I’m like, Oh my God, I cannot get a handle on my life. You know, which sucks, but I think a lot of people are in a similar place where they just feel like they can’t get a handle on things.
And I think a part of it is that between the pandemic, the economy, for our US listeners, the presidency, all of these things, like we’re– it just, everything feels so uncertain and things keep getting worse [00:15:00] for a lot of people. And so I feel like maybe we’re all sort of in this space where we’re like, shit, how do I get out of the place that I’m in?
Virginia: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, folks. I’m really distracted because my baby is screaming at the top of her lungs, like really upset. And it’s, even though I know other people are dealing with it, my cortisol levels spike.
Stella: Oh, it’s so hard. It’s so hard. Sometimes I just, in order to manage my own nervous system, I will just go and get the baby.
And people will be like, I had the baby. It’s like, I understand. But I cannot handle listening to this, and I know if I go out there, this will stop. So even though it means I cannot work on the things I need to do, the baby will not be yelling anymore.
Virginia: Yeah, I’ve practiced a lot, though, in ignoring my children, so like, I feel bad, but I know it will pass.
Stella: They will survive it. You know what? They will survive it. You will survive [00:16:00] it.
Virginia: Yeah yeah. I
Wow, what was I going to say?
Sorry, my brain is so
Stella: like, like, I mean, mine would be too, but I think that’s the other thing. Like, it’s so hard to complete a thought sometimes in a household with a toddler. I, I just, I can’t, there’s so much stuff I want to be doing. I think this is really the crux of the place I’m in. There are stuff I want to be doing and I feel like there is scarcity, that there is a scarcity of resources.
To make those things happen, whether it’s funding for childcare or whether it’s my own brain space. I can’t concentrate anymore.
Virginia: Yeah. And the thing is too, like when, when I finally get time, like whoever’s filling in the gap to watch her, I sometimes it just can’t work because my brain is just like, but I’m tired right [00:17:00] now, actually, or I want to stare at Jin, or I want to like,
Stella: I mean, who wouldn’t want to stare at Jin?
Virginia: I want to watch the latest Run BTS episode, or in this case, Dallyeora Seokjin, you know, like I, yeah, and so it’s very frustrating because like I should be doing it. And also.
See, yeah, I can’t, I can’t even think because even though her crying is dying down, I’m still like, oh, is it going to pick back up? Is it, does it? Yeah, like, is she okay? Yeah, and then I feel guilt. I feel guilty if I’m not doing the thing that I said I was going to do because it just burns the time that I don’t have.
Like, you’re burning, like, when people say you’re burning daylight, I’m like, I’m burning well behaved child time, right? Or I’m burning like solo time. And it just all feels. Yucky. And then with all those things on my, on my brain, sometimes it just can’t work.
Stella: Yeah, no, absolutely. It’s, it’s so hard. And I do think, you know, kind of coming back to [00:18:00] the theme of our podcast, being brazen Asians.
I think it’s really scary to have dreams and be honest about them, right? And I think it’s hard to feel like, especially as a woman, but I think this happens for people of all genders. It feels so hard to feel like you are sacrificing your family or someone else’s future or your parents, you know, the people around you in order to make your own ambitions come true.
Yeah. Right? It’s a, it’s a shitty feeling.
Virginia: Mm hmm. And it’s really vulnerable. So it’s actually one of the main things that attracted me to BTS. Mm. Because all their early songs, and even now, they’re very boldly declaring the things that they want. And I think it’s one thing to talk about things you hate, because, I mean, who’s really excited about, like, high rent?
Or the high cost of living, like, right? Like, I [00:19:00] feel like when you complain about things, when you hate on things, it’s it’s like low hanging fruit, right? And, and there’s a place for it. Okay. There’s a place for it to like complain about stuff, but no one’s like, yeah, we love the way the man has their boot at our neck.
Right? Like no one’s like, I mean, right. But most people, yeah, but most people aren’t like, yes, we love, living paycheck to paycheck, you know, but it’s really vulnerable to, to say the things that you want. So like BTS, they’re like, I want a big house, big car, big cars, big rings, right? Big dreams, you know?
And then later they discuss, okay, now we have these things. Now I don’t know what the, I don’t know what to want. Right? Like, and so I think for me, it felt, I felt like that because I felt like I got everything I wanted. I wanted to get married. I [00:20:00] wanted to have kids. Well, I didn’t really specifically want kids, but I knew kids were, came with the package because that’s what people do.
And then I wanted to, I wanted to be comfortable. I wanted to have a house and, and I got everything. I got everything I wanted and I couldn’t understand why I was so unhappy. Right? I had four kids, which I wanted. I wanted four kids when I decided I wanted children. I wanted four. I was married. We had a nice house.
We had the two cars.
Stella: You got to home school.
Virginia: I got to home school. Well, that’s probably contributing to the reason why I wasn’t happy, but whatever.
Stella: Oh, same, same. But, but we did get to do it. Right? There are probably so many people who are like, I would love the opportunity to care for my kids in that way, but we cannot.
We can’t make that happen in our system. So yeah, like we, we got a lot of things.
Virginia: And so it feels greedy or like ungrateful to say what I have right now. I’m, I’m not unhappy. I’m not ungrateful for [00:21:00] it. I’m very grateful. And I am very happy in that sense, but it’s not enough and it’s not, it’s, I want more.
Right. I feel like Ariel, she’s like, she’s a fucking princess, right. In her, in her father’s kingdom, but she wants a fucking fork, you know? And I mean, admittedly Prince Eric is very handsome, but like, but yeah, so it just feels greedy or it feels like. Why can’t you just accept your lot in life or why can’t you accept that this is the stage of life you’re in and then what and and then you have people telling you like, Oh, you’ll, you’ll miss it one day or like, and I’m like, okay, I.
I acknowledge that you are in a different life stage than I am. I acknowledge that your children are grown, have their own grandchildren, and all those things. And yes, we miss those days. And I’m not saying I won’t [00:22:00] miss it, right? I kind of miss it too, you know? And also, I want more than this.
Stella: Yeah. It’s hard.
We never want our families to feel like they are not enough for us. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. We don’t ask men to be satisfied with having a family, like that’s not something we ask of men that, and I think that there are a lot of people in general who are afraid to admit that some things are insufficient.
And again, it’s hard. I, you feel like a really shitty mom when you’re telling people like, yeah, my family isn’t sufficient for me. But that’s the reality. And it’s because as fulfilling and wonderful and incredible as it is. To be a mom and to have a family. I am not only a mom as a person. That’s like not the only facet of my identity that exists.
Right.
Virginia: Yeah. And, [00:23:00] and it was also really particularly difficult for me. And I don’t know if you felt it the same way. But I think all my life. I heard things like, or at least all my Christian life, I heard things like, Well, if you feel a hole in your heart, that’s because you’re not getting your needs met by Jesus.
And I’m like, Right.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I get very angry at that response. Right, as if being dissatisfied is a sin issue. Right, like, but, and, and, and. And as if being dissatisfied is not letting Jesus into all parts of your life, right? Like, not necessarily a sin, but a lack of faith or a lack of enough Jesus. And I’m sorry.
And they would say this, like, if you were unhappy about being single, like, you should just date Jesus. Like, I’m sorry. I don’t want to have sex with [00:24:00] Jesus. Right? Like, I
Stella: would be very weird. Yeah. Weird relationship. Right?
Virginia: I’m not in, I don’t want to fuck God. Doesn’t sound appealing. It’s weird. I think it’s weird. I don’t want to date Jesus. Don’t want to marry Jesus. Don’t want to kiss Jesus.
Stella: don’t, I don’t think Jesus wants to date us. Like let’s be honest, I, I think there needs to be consent in both directions and I don’t think it’s there. I think it’s very weird that people are pimping out Jesus on his behalf as if Jesus wants to date all of us.
Virginia: Right? And it’s, and it’s very weird. Or that, or God, like, Oh, if they, they often throw out the like, is it the Elijah quote where he went out to the mountains and went to the sea and was looking for God and all those places, but he found God in the still quietness inside his soul, you know? And they’re like, stop looking for God and fulfillment and the big things look inside you [00:25:00] for the quiet voice.
And you’re like, My quiet voice is saying, fuck you, I want to do other things. Right? Like, why can’t I just do other things? What’s wrong with like, you know, and I feel like we were given these pat answers, these insufficient shitty theology. And it really, it’s, it’s not an invitation to examine your life.
It’s not an invitation to examine why you’re unhappy. It’s really just more indoctrination of shut up, put your head down, sit down. . And then also if you are vulnerable with what you want, it’s people are like, who the fuck do you think you are?
Yeah. Yeah, there is a real you are to ask for this?
Mm
hmm. Right? Mm hmm. How dare you ask for more than what you got?
Stella: I, that’s such a real thing. And I, I feel that discomfort so strongly [00:26:00] sometimes because again, like you and I, we married pretty great people, right? We had pretty great children. We have a roof over our heads. Yeah. You know, I think people are like, you already have so much.
I don’t know why you’re not maximizing that? Like there are people in my life who are probably like, babe, like you, like, yes, a toddler is hard. It’s not easy, but you are also home. You can make your home pleasant and wonderful for yourself. And I’m like, I do not have the energy required to do anything, including make this house.
The way I want it to be like, I’m, I’m shot. I have nothing. And so, but it is really hard because I do feel, I mean, obviously I don’t feel that from my support network because they’re all phenomenal people, but I think maybe I just feel like the weight of society’s judgment, like, these are not real people in my life telling me these things, but I feel like, it just feels like, I don’t know, I’m [00:27:00] not supposed to be asking for more.
I’m not supposed to be dissatisfied. But I also think that that discomfort that we experience when what we have isn’t enough is the thing that is propelling us to change or to move into a new phase, right?
Virginia: Mm hmm.
Sorry, I got stuck thinking about whether my support system said anything bad.
Stella: I don’t think they did. Right? Like I, I think the majority of people in my life are really supportive. They’re like, yeah, go for it. You know, go for what you want. But there is still that element of, oh, fuck, is society judging me?
Virginia: But they are though.
Stella: They are. I mean, they are.
Virginia: Because I have written about these very same subjects and the comment section It’s horrible,
Stella: Which is wild because you will get emails from tons of people, mostly women, mostly moms were like, [00:28:00] I resonate with this so much like this is so meaningful. This is exactly what I’m going through.
And then you’ll have these assholes in the comments just absolutely proving why you needed to say something in the first place.
Virginia: Yeah. And it’s mind boggling. And thankfully, I mean, I really enjoyed writing for Scary Mommy when I worked for them or wrote for them. But yeah, I really don’t miss the shitty people in the comments.
And I, and I recognize that they hired us so that we could have hot takes, right? So
that they could get clicks, right?
Stella: Yes. Yes. Drive the engagement.
Virginia: And part of me really enjoys that sort of negative attention. I like,
Stella: You don’t say,
Virginia: I know it’s surprising. It’s so, yes, some part of me enjoys being a shit kicker, but
it is really fun, I will say. Yeah, but it is [00:29:00] not my preferred default mode because it’s,
Stella: it’s, it’s a reaction, right? To the fact that people, you know, in society are really shitty.
And so I think you’re just starting shit because they’re also starting shit, this is a response. Yes, it’s not. This is not you starting shit for fun.
This is you saying, Hey, so, if we really want to play this game, I have a hot take for you.
Virginia: Yes. Yes. Yes. That makes me sound so much more mature. Yes, thank you. Thank you for making me seem like I’m revolutionary somehow. When really, I’m just like, no, I want to poke that.
Stella: I want to see what happens.
Virginia: I mean, I know what’ll happen, but, and also.
So, yeah.
Stella: I mean, that’s how we let off steam, right?
Virginia: Yeah, it’s like whack a mole.
Stella: But speaking of that, I [00:30:00] think that when I was definitely more resentful and feeling more stuck and not able to articulate what I was going through, I think I definitely had not great coping tools for it.
Virginia: Oh, tell me more.
Stella: Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, obviously I would, I was, I would just had a shorter temper when my two older kids were younger.
Right. And when I asked them about it now, they’re like, yeah, sometimes you would get really upset, but mostly you were, you were chill. It was fine. But I remember feeling like I was on edge all the time. Right. And I probably got into more fights on the internet back then because I was not coping well with my reality.
Virginia: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stella: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think this time around. I’m way more invested and interested in things like community building, I’m interested in moving forward or writing, which is all stuff I loved back then too, but I didn’t have [00:31:00] the emotional bandwidth because I was so full of these stuck feelings that were manifesting in ugly ways, right?
And so I’d like to think that the ways in which I’ve grown as a person mean that this. Next round of toddlerdom will be a little easier on me and maybe the rest of my family. Do you think it’s been similar for you?
Virginia: Honestly, I really don’t remember a lot of this last 15 years.
Stella: Same. But, you know, I have diary entries.
I have children I can ask. And children will be honest with you. They will tell you if you, if they’re like, no, no, you ruined my life. You were terrible. , they’ll, they’ll tell you. So you should just ask.
Virginia: I mean, I don’t think they really remember. They vaguely remember me dragging them to my therapist every Friday, which they enjoyed because they got to eat a shit ton of snacks and look at me for an hour.
Yeah. They got to sit and eat snacks. They loved it. Yeah.
Yeah. [00:32:00] So, I mean. Can you hear her? She’s been screaming this whole time.
Stella: No, nothing. Okay, that’s good. Nothing is coming. But it’s probably not great for your stress levels. No. No. Parenting, this is, this is momming in action, friends.
Virginia: Yeah. I have no idea what we were saying.
Oh, what was your question? Something about? Just like coping?
Stella: Coping. Yeah. Like, is, is, are you coping the same way in the same ways? This time around of being stuck, or have you and I never moved out of being stuck?
Virginia: I mean, I feel like, okay, so for me, what was most frustrating about this round is that I thought I had finally graduated. Same. Right? Because, you know, my youngest was five.
Stella: Girl, my youngest was, what, like, I think she was ten. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:33:00] And
Virginia: so, I got used to it,
Stella: like,
Virginia: Right. And he was six when this baby was born.
And so I, I forgot how hard babies are. And I, I can’t believe I had four children under seven at one point.
Stella: Wild, wild.
Virginia: I was constantly pregnant or nursing and I was always driving. I took them to all these things. I had, I didn’t have even way more classes. So I think life was harder, but it was also easier because it was very regimented. Like, we had so many things. And you’re not,
Stella: You don’t have room to think.
Virginia: Yeah. And I was so tired all the time. And very frustrated, of course, too. Yeah. So I think it was, but then you get a pause and you get to breathe and then you’re like, Oh, I forgot. I wanted to do all these things for myself.
And [00:34:00] then you do them and then you’re like, Oh, see, I was a person and now I’m back to being a person. And now it’s being taken away again. And so I think that was just like, and everyone, you know, all the people who judge you will be like, well, then use protection or you could have got an abortion. Or if you choose an abortion, which I was considering, like I was considering when people were like, well, how dare you?
It’s not the baby’s fault. You were stupid, you know, whatever. Close your legs, you tramp. And I’m like, well, First of all, fuck you. Oh, it’s okay. It’s okay. It’s okay.
Stella: I can hear her now.
Virginia: Oh, yeah, because she’s in the actual room. Hold on. Hold on. [00:35:00] Hi. Mama.
Yeah, you want to come here? You want to come here? You want to come here?
She is actually
Stella: Oh, totally naked.
Virginia: I know. I know. Okay. Okay. Alright. I don’t know what to do.
Stella: We’ve, we’ve almost Yeah, we can stop here.
Virginia: Okay, is it okay if we totally re record later?
Stella: Yeah. Absolutely. No, no, no. You guys have had a rough time, but this is also like, this is exactly what’s happening.
Virginia: Okay, okay, let’s go, babe.
Stella: Yes, I love you. I’ll see you. Bye.
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